Wednesday 28 August 2013

Ireland to Italy by bike - the summary

July 1st was my take off date. Ireland to Italy Summer 2013!

I've always wanted to cycle around Europe. I loved the thought of getting to mainland Europe without getting on a plane. The thought of slow travel, taking in the sights, the sounds, the smells, the people has always enticed me. Summer 2013 was the summer for it. My partner was off travelling the world so I decided to live my dream and have my own adventure.

I spent a summer in Italy six years ago and I've always wanted to go back to visit my friends so Trento in Northern Italy became my final destination. Ireland to Italy, one girl and her bike!!!
I set a very rough route defined by where friends lived along the way, cycle routes and places I've always wanted to go. It ended up being a 1800km cycle.

Day 1 involved taking the ferry, bus, train and bike to my first destination, Cambridge. I was nervous before I set off. My bike was now carrying everything I needed for the next month so it was heavier than usual but once I got moving it was amazing, I could hardly feel the extra weight on it. Cycling around new places was great too. Dublin was easy, such a flat city! Coming off the ferry in Holyhead was a bit sketchy as I was between all the arctic trucks but once I left the ferry terminal and got onto the minor roads in Wales it was great. Rolling hills, beautiful scenery and lovely little villages that you don't see on motorways. The UK surprised me with its really beautiful villages, canals and polite drivers. It has many cycle routes, sometimes they can be confusing but for the most part, when you're on the cycle route and you're going the right direction it's a lovely place to cycle around.

I took the Eurostar from London to Belgium. Two and a half hours and I'm in a completely different city, country and culture - amazing. I really enjoyed cycling around London, there's a great cycle culture that I wasn't expecting and so many people cycling. Brussels was very different, there are lots of cyclists but cars and cyclists don't mix so well. The cyclists have to use the cycle lanes and if you happen to venture onto the road you need to be very careful as the drivers don't seem to respect cyclists as much as they do in countries where cyclists and cars share the road.

My route took me from Brussels to southern Belgium, through Luxembourg and over to Trier in Germany. From Germany I went south along the Saar river to France, met with the Rhine canal which took me into Strasbourg and then followed the canal south again to Colmar. It's amazing passing through the different countries by bike and experiencing the different cultures, languages, foods, bicycle routes and how the differences can be so apparent even though the borders aren't! I cycled through the Flanders region of Brussels where they speak Flemish and give 3 kisses as hello and then all of a sudden it was Bonjour from fellow cyclists in the Wallon region, 2 kisses, not as many bicycle paths and a lot more hills. Luxembourg is also hilly with lovely quite roads through the woods and along rivers. I cycled for quite a while looking at Germany over the river and when I finally crossed the river it was interesting how different the cycling experience was. Cycle paths and cyclists everywhere of all shapes and sizes. Germany is a very bike friendly country. Cycle paths in the cities, between cities, along rivers and everyone cycles. It's their way of commuting, great to see!
As there is free travel between European countries I never passed an official border from one country to another but they were obvious in other ways. The most obvious difference was cycling along the Saar river to Saarbrucken in industrial Germany, cycling along a very busy and fast cycle path under massive pipes used for the steel industry there and a few kilometres later cycling along the same river, on the same cycle route through a pretty French town with lots of flowers, less cyclists and everyone going a lot slower!

I met so many people along the way. Some, old friends that I had arranged to stay with, others, people that hosted me through websites such as warmshowers.org and couchsurfing.org and many more that I just met along the way. Cycling, although a solo adventure can be very sociable and people often like to chat along the way and help and encourage one another.

From Colmar I cycled along the Rhine wine route, then across to Freiburg, Germanys most cycle friendly city and then to the mountain in the Black forest. From there I cycled to Lake Constance and my entrance to the Alps. The Alps were definitely what I was most scared about but they weren't so bad, slow and steady that's the secret. I actually really enjoyed the climbs. Such a sense of achievement to have reached the top of my first Alpine pass, the Alberg Pass, 1800m, all by pedal power. From Landeck in Austria I joined Via Claudia Augusta, the first route the Romans took from Germany to the Mediteranian. It is now a really nice cycle path the whole way. Beautiful scenery, mountains, rivers, villages, really well signposted and so easy to follow. And for those that don't fancy cycling the uphill parts there's shuttle buses for cyclists! The route crosses from Austria to Italy via the Reschenpass. This pass although not as high as Alberg Pass was definitely more spectacular and it also meant I had reached Italy, home of gelato and my final destination!! Only two days of downhill cycling left which of course was wonderful!

What surprised me most about the trip is that it didn't hurt. At no point where my legs or bum sore. I took it easy on the bike, spent time taking in my surroundings, took plenty of breaks and ate lots of food. I think that all helped, well, as well as my padded shorts, cyclists bum cream and a bit of yoga some evenings.
What was hardest about the trip was finding my way. At the beginning of the trip I would look at the distance and think ok, 20km an hour so that should take maybe four hours. How wrong I was! It didn't take long before I realised that I needed to factor in reading maps, road signs, asking for directions and getting lost as an integral part of every day. One hour extra at least every day for route finding, and 20km an hour was too fast. Ok at home when I'm going from one place to another but here where I wanted to take pictures, get lost and take it easy it was more like 15km/hr and that would sometimes include my route finding time, depending how lost I got!! 

What was my favourite part of the trip? The journey! I loved it all, every day offered new scenery, challenges, people. Cycling is such a lovely way of travelling and I really got to see the countryside so much more than I would if I was in a car. It's also such a simple type of holiday. Just me and my bike, I know I can only travel a certain distance every day so I just visit the nice places along the way. I can eat massive amounts of food (according to my Garmin watch I burned 96,000 calories but I'm doubting that), have a beer or wine along the way or in the evenings. Take in the scenery, listen to and smell nature, go for a swim, stop and watch the boats go through the locks at the canals and best of all there was no stress!
My partner and I rented a car when we met in Trento and straight away I missed my bike. Everything happens so fast in cars, getting lost on a motorway is very stressful, driving on the other side of the road is stressful, tackling mountain passes with a little rental car, parking, getting fuel, speed limits, tolls, it's all so tiring. I was more tired after two hours in a car than a day on the bike!



Would I recommend a cycling holiday? Absolutely, the best holiday I've ever had! 










Tuesday 30 July 2013

I made it – final destination : Fondo, Trentino, Italy

 

I had a great time with the Sprolls, they brought me touring so I got to see all the sights and my legs got a rest. Seen the biggest waterfall in Europe, the Rhine Falls- biggest volume of water, it was very loud! Went for another lovely swim in Lake Constance and seen Stein am Rhine, a really pretty town where all the houses are painted with a different story and we’d a night out at the  local festival, my first night out on the town since Brussels!


 


The next day my journey continued, around the lake, through Switzerland and over the Rhine again to Austria and to Christoph & Elizabeth who I got in touch with through warm showers and who were helping me choose my route over the mountains. Cycling around the lake was fine, good cycle route & easy to follow. It was so busy with tourists and families. Supposedly Switzerland makes more money from cycle tourism than skiing tourism – I’m reckoning that means it makes an awful lot of money! Once I left the lake the route got a bit more confusing and the signage definitely isn’t as good in Austria as Switzerland but after 114km of flat and 1km of super steep I made it to my bed for the night. Christoph & Elizabeth live up a very steep hill with a beautiful view of the Alps. They’ve been car free for 21 years, that includes raising their kids and bringing their shopping up the hill by bike – impressive!


They assured me that I’d make it over the mountains and told me where the bike paths were etc. So off I set on Wednesday morning to tackle the Alberg Pass, 1800m & I made it (and I got to cycle through the land of Milka on the way!) It was amazing to be cycling up a valley between all these massive mountains, some that still had snow on them. The route involved cycling along a minor road that wasn’t too busy but there were  few tunnels. The first one was adamant that cyclists go through it and then the next seemed a bit confused & I thought the sign said to go through it.  The tunnel was over 1km long, all uphill and it was horrible! I don’t think I can describe how loud it was, the noise from the cars was amplified  and it sounded more like an airplane beside me every time one went past. When I finally made it to the end I had to stop and almost cried with relief and then of course I seen the sign saying for cyclists to cycle on the outside of the tunnel, the sign must have been bent on the other side! Thankfully I had lights on my bike and a high-vis on as it was a dull day so I was well lit up in the tunnel. Lesson learned – try to avoid tunnels at all costs!!!


 
After that the uphill struggle continued, a few hairpin turns but it actually wasn’t that bad. I think I  was just so relieved to be out of the tunnel that it took me a while to register that I was climbing! And then, I made it, Alberg Pass, 1800m conquered, a lot of climbing and a lot of sweating but it was worth it. It was an overcast day so I didn’t have the best view but I was just so happy to have made it and as it was the highest pass of my trip it meant I would make it to Italy!

 
And then, is was downhill for the rest of the day – beautiful. I met a local cyclist at the traffic lights and he was going in the same direction as me so I didn’t even have to think about directions, just follow him and then I joined him for a beer in his house after, great finish to such a big days cycling!!

 

I stayed in Landeck that night knowing that the next day involved climbing the Reschenn Pass (1500m) and …. arriving it Italy!! Armin, the cyclist from the day before had given me tips for the cycle and said there was a cycle path more or less the whole way and he also pointed out the tunnels and the alternative route!!
Off I set on Thursday and sure enough there was a cycle route. It was beautiful, the most beautiful day cycling of the whole trip. I was cycling on the Inn cycle path which was part of Via Claudia Augusta, the first route the Romans took from Northern Germany to the Mediterranean so the cycle path goes all the way from Germany, through Austria and down through Italy to Venice.


 
Cycling against the flow of the Inn was amazing, such a loud, powerful river and it’s all Ice melt so a really amazing colour. I then took Armin’s advice and turned off Via Claudia Augusta for a little bit so I didn’t have to go through any tunnels. I cycled along the Swiss Austrian border, divided by the Inn. It was beautiful, down at the bottom of a really steep valley. It did mean that I had 8km of hairpin turns to get to Nauders which marks the beginning of Reschenn Pass and not going through the tunnels added an extra 8km to my trip but it was definitely worth it.


 
I was planning on stopping in Nauders for food but Italy was only 5km away so I pedalled on and crossed the border and made it to Italy for lunch, very proud of myself!!

 
 

 
 

It’s amazing the amount of people that go cycle touring and of all ages. I met a father and son, the son only looked about 12 and they were doing the pass too and the father was carrying a trailer full of luggage. I’m not sure how 2 people could need so much luggage but maybe it was just to add to the challenge. Other’s bring their young children in the trailers and others are well  into their 60’s and 70’s – inspirig stuff!!

 A doggy trailer!
 

In France, Geraldine& Guillaume told me about friends of theirs that cycled from England to Eastern France with 2 kids in tow and another couple that cycled from Norway to South Africa with their baby. The also had a book about a couple that spent 14 years cycling around the world, had a child in the middle of it and continued cycling with the child until she was 8!!

 
So I conquered the Reschenn Pass and has a swim in Resia, swimming at 1500m is very refreshing!! Then once again, the downhill begins and it was all along a cycle path and really beautiful, the little Italian villages are lovely. I wasn’t expecting good cycle paths in Italy but they’ve actually been the best so far, really nicely signed, especially when coming up to towns and villages and all along lovely rivers and through orchards and vineyards. I’ve never seen so many apples in my life, look out for Val Venosta apples next time you’re in the supermarket and that’s where I was cycling.

 
 

 

After 110km and because I had made it all on my own to Italy I decided to celebrate with a night in a fancy hotel with a yummy meal. If you’re ever in Val Venosta you should stay in Hotel Vinschgerhof – class & best hotel breakfast ever, there was even black forest gateaux for brekkie!!!


 
On the hotels advice I cycled on through Merano, which has great waterfalls on the way into the city, and then on to Lago di Caldaro – another really beautiful spot, it seems Italy is full of them!


 
The one bad thing about Lago di Caldaro is that it’s down in a valley and as nice as the freewheel down was for a few km it also means  a climb back out! I took it easy in the morning, had a nice swim and took off about 12pm knowing that I had to climb out of the valley which was over a 1000m climb but it was only a 40km trip for the day, I should make it! Underestimation!!
The first 8km to the nearest town were the hardest of the whole trip, I didn’t know my body could sweat so much! I’m not sure if it was the 35* heat, the steep climb or the fact that I didn’t eat my easy single and luncheon roll I was given for breakfast but it was such a struggle. I got to Caldaro town, ate some food and tried out figure out where the pass was.  So I looked vertically up and there it was, I couldn’t figure out where the road was as it was so steep but my pass for the day, Passo di Mendola was another 800m above me which in road terms was 30km of hairpin turns away. I ate my pasta and went to find a local that could tell me more about the pass; he definitely did not instil any sense of ease in tackling the climb but then he dropped the golden nugget!! There was a funicular that would take me all the way up in 10min! It was magic, best €12 ever. I just pushed me and my bike on and off we went up a vertical slope for 10min, watched the town and lake become tiny and then there I was at the top of the pass. It might have been a bit of a cheat but I think I would have melted if I tried to cycle up.


 
(So the little dip on the top of that vertical mountain is Mendola Pass and the 30km of hairpin turns are somewhere in the trees)

 

The funicular, the hairpins & the town I started at way down below


The reason I was going over this pass was to visit Alice who lived in Ireland for a year and who I had visited in Italy 6 years ago. She lives in Fondo which is at an altitude of 980m and now as I was at 1350m it meant 8km of glorious downhill. And I made it, final destination Fondo, Trentino, Italy, approx 1800km of cycling!

 
My bike is now parked up in Alices beautiful house, I've been climbing in the Dolomites with Michelle & Cuan and today I'm off to meet Ivan at the airport, time for part 2 of my holiday!
 

 
 
 

 


Monday 22 July 2013

Au revoir France, Hallo mountains!!

So here goes, the Strasbourg to Bodensee update!

So I hung out in Marys house in Strasbourg for the morning and then I hit the road to Colmar in the afternoon. It was probably the most boring cycle so far, 80km along a very straight, flat canal with no shops or even picnic benches but I'm not complaining as it was also one of the hottest days so far at about 35degrees and the route was shaded so it was definitely the best choice of route and the best part was I didn't have to think, just follow the canal, easy!
I did encounter my first rude French person experience but only 2 rude French people out of all the wonderful French people I met isn't bad.

I finally arrived in Colmar and Olivier picked me up and then we went picking berries, it was great, just like summer at home :) I spent a lovely evening with Olivier, Clarise and their family and then the next morning I'd nice walk around Colmar which is a really pretty town.


 (a very unlikely looking Irish bar in Colmar)

From Colmar I followed the wine route to Eguisheim, a town that is still contained within it's original fort, supposedly the nicest tourist town in France 2013, it is very pretty. If you look close enough you might see the storks nest of the top of both churches, very cool. The smaller church was built in recognition of Pope Louis that came from Eguisheim!


The Rhine valley is full of vineyards so I followed the wine to my next stop Guebwiller where I stayed with Geraldine and Guillaume. Geraldines cousin stayed with me in Ireland a few months ago and when I was telling him about my trip he said I should call into his cousin and I am so thankful that he arranged it.
Geraldine and Guillaume were great, it was just like being at home, hanging out with friends, going for picnics and going on adventures. I was only planning on staying one night but I stayed two and I went for the most beautiful swim of my trip way up in Lac Ballon, it involved a pretty hard slog of a cycle uphill but it was definitely worth it. They are really involved with promoting and encouraging cycling so it was great exchanging ideas.



 Up from the valley to the lake


On our bicyclettes :)

I left Guebwiller and France and cycled across the Rhine valley to Freiburg in Germany. The difference between the 2 countries is so extreme even though they're right beside each other. It´s so relaxed in France and there is not so much bike signage and then as soon I start approaching Germany there is way more bike signage, cycle routes and bikes. I'm undecided whether I like cycling to Germany or not. Freiburg is the most cycle friendly city in Germany and there is definitely a lot of bikes there but everyone seems to be in a hurry so if you're like me and need to stop and look at the map there's a high liklyhood you'll get run over. I ended up hugging the wall a few times so I wouldn't get run over by cyclists!
I met Elsa in Freiburg and she brought me on a tour of the city and to a cool area where all the houses are built sustainably and they're developed so that cars aren't allowed onto the streets so that it's safe for kids to play. It is a really nice area and very well designed with lots of colours and nature everywhere so that it doesn't really feel like you're in the middle of a city.


But the main meaning of Freiburg for me was that this is where the mountains begin - up into the Black forest. Freiburg is at 270m and over the next few hours I was going to make my way to over 1000m. Anytime I told a local about my plan to cycle to Titisee, a lake up in the Black Forest, the response was generally just a hand signal that indicated very steep and a lot of looking at my bike and the panniers. But thanks to Guillaume and my cycle to Lac Ballon he was pretty sure I'd manage it as himself and Geraldine done more or less the exact same trip as me earlier this year. I got a little lost on my way to the base of the climb, I was getting confused by the signage but I finally figured out that the smaller signs are for walkers and they take a differnt route than cyclists.

 To the mountains

On the cycle map my route comes with triangles which means super steep but I conquered it - slow and steady and I made it to Titisee, very proud of myself. I had a little picnic by the lake and then I headed on to Lenzkirch to where Hilda spent a summer of fun! It's a lovely little village and the people were really friendly. An Italian guy organised some accomodation for me and then I got some yummy free ice-cream, mainly I think because he thought I was nuts cycling to Italy!

 Titisee

Photo: Lenzkirch beer in front of the old hofen and malz, just for you Hilda :-) Lenzkircher beer in Lenzkirch

So here I am up at 1000m and I know that my next destination is Lake Constance at 500m so inocently I thought that would mean a nice easy day of cycling downhill - how wrong I was!
I spent a long time studying my map to make sure I took what looked like the easiest route. First stop Kirnbergsee, the lake at the source of the Danube, only about 15km by map, great place for an early morning swim. Sadly it was more a sweaty afternoon swim. So the way the signage for cyclists works in the Black Forest is that you never go on a main road, you are on a mountain bike (preferably electric) and that you like cycling in circles.  
I figured I was going to go the direct route to Loffingen instead of doing a 15km detour that the cycle route takes you on. A few km in I see a sign for Loffingen and I think ok, that looks like a more direct route so off I go following the cycle route, a wonderfully bad idea! It brought me down a really rough dirt track to look at a river and then sent me up a crazy steep dirt track. I had to get off the bike and push. A car coming down the road stopped and told me that it's about 1.5km of steep dirt track so off I went pushing my bike cursing German signage when the car reversed back up the hill and told me they would bring me and my bike up the hill - lifesavers!! They left the wife and all their equipment on the side of the road and put me and my bike in the car and brought me up the hill, good job too as I would definitely have had a meltdown trying to push the bike up, I think I would still be there!

 My Lifesavers!!


 Kirnbergsee, source of the Danube

I finally made it to Kirnbergsee, with only a few more detours and some road blocks. I had a well deserved swim and then I hit the road again as I still had ages left to go. All in all I arrived at Lake Constance 8 hours after leaving Lenzkirch, with about 5km of downhill and 95km of confusion & hills.

But I made it - I conquered the Black Forest!! I had a  celebratory swim in Lake Constance and now I'm staying with the Sproll family that spent years living in Ballinrobe. They're taking great care of me as I prepare for the next part of the trip - The Dolomites (eek!!)

Tuesday 16 July 2013

Belgium, Luxembourg, Gemany, France!!!

I've crossed a lot of borders and done a lot of cycling since my last blog and I've loads to say, so, if you'd like the short version here it is - I'm loving it!! Meeting great people, seeing beautiful places and just having an amazing time!!

The longer version goes like this:

From Marche en Famenne I hit the hills towards La Roche en Ardenne. There was some solid uphill at the beginning but then wonderful downhill which I assumed would mean more uphill but I was wrong which was great!! All down and flat for the rest of the day, lunch in Houffalize and then on to Bastogne to stay with a lovely couchsurfing family.



I was on the road for the first part of the day and a cyclist on a racer joined me for the uphill, he was impressed at my speed with my 'gross sac' so that was a nice boost! The bike path from Houffalize was lovely but very quite, it's nice to see other cyclists once in a while.
 
 
From Bastogne I hit the road to Germany which meant a long day cycling as I had to cross Luxembourg first. I followed the Wiltz river bike path which was flat and quite and all of a sudden I was in Luxembourg, I think the arch below was meant to symbolize that but it didn't say anything. I arrived in Wiltz town and then the uphill began! I cycled on to meet the Sure river and then followed that until it joined the Mossel and followed that to Trier in Germany. It's mad following a river from it's source and watch it grow and then join with a massive river with cargo boats!
 
Luxembourg is a funny country, they speak Luxembourgish which is a mix of French and German and they don't seem to have rules about smoking and working. I asked for directions from a man smoking while cleaning tables in a restaurant which I thought was strange and then later on in the day, I stopped for food in Echternach, a pretty town on the border with Germany and when I went in to pay the lady was smoking while cooking!
It is a very pretty country though with lots of trees, hills and rivers. 




 
 I finally arrived in Trier in Germany, 130km later! Robin from warmshowers was waiting for me and brought me to his place where he kindly hosted me. Trier is a great city, lots of Roman architecture and history. It was a great place to take a day off and I treated myself to a massage which ended up being a pretty painful treat, I guess all the mileage is bound to lead to painful massage!
 
 

 
 
 
I met Magdalena from warmshowers the next day and she brought me to a lovely Bbq with her friends in a vineyard and I stayed there for the night.  It was great to chat with Robin and Magdalena and all their friends, everyone was really friendly and had great English which was great because I haven't a clue of German! 
 
 
 
So far on this trip I've been surrounded by French, Italian, Dutch, Luxembourgish and German, it's been quite confusing but I've been enjoying the challenge of trying to speak different languages but when it comes to German, I'm out, I understand turn left or right but that's about it!
 
Magdalena and her friends cycled with m to the Mosselle then they headed North and I went south along the Mosselle and then joined with the Saar. The cycle paths in Germany are so busy, it's so different that Belgium, my bell is my best friend here as you have to use it to prevent bike crashes!!
I stopped in Saarbourg first, a beautiful town with a waterfall in the middle of it. It was amazing all the cyclists there of all shapes, ages and sizes. Nobody seems to have an excuse not to cycle, if you're not fit enough they just use an electric bike. It's such a nice day out, cycle to a lovely town in the countryside for the day then back to the city.
 

 
 
Cycling along the Saar was beautiful, in the valley among the trees, really beautiful! The only down side was that it was way longer than I expected, I thought I had an 80km cycle to get to Saarbrucken but after 95km and in Saarlouis I was still 25km out and starving. I was finding it hard to get food in the small villages along the way so I asked a man through a game of charades where I got food. He kindly cycled along with me for 10km and had some kind of German conversation with me and brought me to the next food stop. I ate, walked round looking for Wifi and then just gave up and booked a room in a hotel with Wifi. I'd a great sleep!!
 
The next day I was off along the Saar again to cross the border into France. The cycle paths in Germany were beginning to feel a bit rushed and not so sociable. I passed one man and without saying anything he tucked in behind me and used me as his wind break for about 10km. I passed another man and he too joined in my trail. It's not very comfortable having 2 guys tucked in behind you without either even saying hello. Anyway, they left and I continued on to Saarbrucken which became famous because of steel production. There was massive industry along the river which made me really happy that I hadn't been tempted to swim in it at any stage!
 

 
As soon as I crossed the border to France the pace seemed to totally relax. The first town I passed was Sarreguimes, a really lovely floral town that used to have a massive pottery factory - way nicer buildings that steel factory buildings!! I had a lovely dinner there and I could kind of understand what people were saying again which was a relief.
 
I followed the Saar again to Mittersheim where I had the first swim of my trip, it was fab and then the final 7km to Fenetrange, a great little medieval village. I called into a great pub/restaurant - Aux Oubliettes and was brought over to my room in Au Pied du Chateau. It felt like I had a whole castle to myself for the night and the staff were so nice, gave me plenty of local wine and pizza - yum!!
 
 
 
 
 
 
Yesterday, I took off cross country from Fenetrange to meet with the Rhine canal. It was nice to be cycling on the road again and to have ups and downs as I had been cycling on the flat beside rivers and canals for a while. I had a great day cycling, the highlight was probably the 5km of downhill through a beautiful forest to a lovely village called Lutzelbourg and from their on I just followed the flow of the Canal to Strasbourg! I had my lunch while watching a boat go through a canal lock and then a nice French couple joined me for the last 20km of my cycle to Strasborg and gave me tips on where I should visit. First stop the European Parliament for a pic with the Irish flag and then off to meet Mary and John!
 
 


 
 
So now I think I'm half way, I left Ireland 2 weeks ago, I meeting Ivan in 2 weeks, I've 1000km done, which is hopefully more than half and now I begin the next part, which is going to involve a lot of uphill!! But, I'm having a blast and I'm looking forward to the challenge. Everything has been great so far, great people, beautiful scenery, good food and nearly always fun cycling so here's hoping  the rest will be the same, I'm pretty sure it will :)